A Look Back: Braves Win the Ramirez/Soriano Trade
It’s time for another installment of our “A Look Back” series here at MLB Fleece Factor. Today we can officially look back at the Horacio Ramirez/Rafael Soriano trade from last year and call the Braves the winner (or “fleecer,” if you will). This call comes because Geoff Baker of the Seattle Times is confirming that the Mariners have released Horacio Ramirez.
On December 7th of 2006, the Braves and Mariners swapped Ramirez and Soriano in what many predicted at the time to be an instant fleece for the Braves. After all, Horacio Ramirez was coming off a year in which he pitched just 76 innings and posted a 4.48 ERA. The prior year, he had thrown 202 innings, but was lit up to the tune of a 4.63 ERA and had a lousy 1.19 K/BB. It was clear, though, that the Mariners - who were also desperate for a starter after losing out on Jason Schmidt - were enamored with Ramirez’ 2004 season, in which he made 9 starts and dominated hitters to the tune of a 2.39 ERA. (They probably didn’t notice his .233 BABIP that year which suggested he was quite lucky). Perhaps, though, the M’s thought Ramirez’ ability to keep the ball on the ground would pay dividends at Safeco Park. And that’s fine.
But why agree to trade a proven reliever like Rafael Soriano for him? Sure, Soriano has had injury problems. But he was able to give the M’s 53 appearances (60 innings) in 2006 of dominant ball. He handed in a ridiculous 2.25 ERA with a K/9 ratio of 9.75, proving that his breakout season in 2003 (1.53 ERA in 53 IP) was not a fluke. At the time of this trade, the Mariners had to know that this kid had the stuff to become a future closer, and had to know that the market for him was better than Horacio Ramirez.
But the Mariners made the trade anyway and, quite frankly, were fleeced. Ramirez went 8-7 with a 7.16 ERA last season for them. And in a market where starting pitching is at a premium, Seattle GM Bill Bavasi couldn’t even find a trading partner for him, thus his release today. Meanwhile, Soriano gave the Braves bullpen the much needed power arm they were seeking. Soriano threw 72 innings for Altanta in 2007, holding 19 games, saving 9 and compiling a 3.00 ERA and striking ou 70. The right-hander is set to be the club’s closer for 2008 and beyond.
In short, Nice fleece Braves. Way to take advantage of a desperate Bill Bavasi to completely fleece his ballclub. A few more dominating seasons as closer out of Soriano, and we could be inducting this one into the Great Moments in Fleece History!
Filed under: Atlanta Braves, Seattle Mariners, _A Look Back
yeah, i mean sure starters are clearly more valuable then relievers… but a crapistic starter for a very good reliever???
Bill Bavasi had a lot to answer for this. this is a classic case of a trade that’s very poorly concieved. executed and with predictable results.
But these are the kind of moves that make him who he is. For our sake, I hope he never wises up!
Admittedly , I had my doubts when this trade went down and Soriano is still far from proven with just 13 career saves.
But still , this is some good work on the part of the Braves scouting department. No one doubts the raw physical ability and talent that Soriano possesses.
If Soriano stays healthy and racks up the saves this year , this will be a major fleece in the part of John Schuerholz.
Speaking of my team , when Mike Gonzalez makes his return after the all-star break , the braves bullpen has the potential to be absolutely wicked.
They have a bunch of live arms in Soriano , Gonzalez , Moylan , Yates , Resop , Boyer and Ohman.
I am sorry to keep arguing with you, Coach…Haha, but here is the Braves bullpen you just named:
Gonzalez- Off Major Injury (question mark)
Ohman- 4.95 ERA (2007)
Yates- 5.18 ERA (2007)
Boyer- 43 2/3 Major League IP
Resop- 42 2/3 Major League IP
Can Moylan repeat his amazing ‘07?? I have faith Soriano will do very well.
Bottom line: Like any bullpen, if chips fall into place, and if “wildcards”(like Boyer and Resop) pitch well….it can be pretty darn good. You speak like it’s nasty though, and it’s really not.
And I can tell , you have not watched a single Braves game this spring.
Boyer throws gas (96-97 MPH) along with a nasty sinker and hard curveball. He is coming off shoulder surgery and is just now getting his velocity back.
Resop was claimed off waivers and added to the 40 man , forcing the Braves to cut Chad Paronto fully knowing that Resop was out of options. Resop throws even harder (99-100) , he just needs to learn how to harness his fastball. Resop has the mindset of a closer and 39 saves in the minors.
I have my doubts about Tyler Yates but he did have an ERA of 3.96 in 2006 and just wore down toward the end of last season due to overuse because of the back end of the Braves inconsistent rotation. Sometimes the number don’t tell the true story. Yates throws a mid-90’s sinker a good change up and slider.
Hell , I didn’t even mention Manny Acosta ( 41 saves in the minors), Phil Stockman , Jeff Bennett , Francisley Bueno or Royce Ring. They represent depth.
Remember this name , Charlie Morton. The kid has wicked , nasty stuff. Lucky for the N.L East , he is a starter and buried behind the other eight or nine starters ahead of him on the depth chart.
By the way , Will Ohman has a career ERA of 2.32 away from Wrigley field. His ERA last season away from Wrigley was 1.45 and now you can say you learned something today.
I would agree that the Braves pitching depth - top to bottom - is very underrated and they should be commended for building such depth. That is going to be their strength over Philadelphia and maybe even New York.
That said, ATL is going to need a lot chips to fall the right way for the ‘pen to be “dominant.” It certainly could happen, though.
I keep going back and forth on the Braves. I can see them winning anywhere from 81 - 95 games this year depending on health of the older guys (namely chipper and smoltz) and the development of said pitchers.
Well, Coach, sounds like the Braves are going to win 105 games this year with all those future hall-of-famers coming up.
Congrats on winning the N.L. East.
Well , I figured somewhere between 90-95 wins myself. You have to remember , when Hampton and Cormier were lost at the beginning of last season effectively killing forty percent of the rotation right out of the gate , it all but doomed the 2007 Braves.
Then of course , Gonzo went down and under the knife and Cox fired Bob Wickman. All that and the Braves still finished with 84 wins and came up five games short of the wild card.
Like Jeff Francoeur and Tom Glavine have already said , it all comes down to the team that stays the healthiest and the Braves have far more depth than the Phillies and Mets.
I’m just being honest with you , this is a really good team.
Besides , Peter Gammons changed his tune and picked the Braves to win the N.L. East this year. Jason Stark has been equally impressed so far.
just to demostrate how ugly that trade was for the M’s. the difference in VORP between Soriano and Ramirez last year was a shade less then the VORP of Justin Verlander …. which is less of a testimony on Soriano’s worth then just how ridiculasly worthless Ramriez was (to a amazingly craptacular tune of -25+ )
what can you say when your team basically threw away the value of Justin Verlander …. AND TOOK ON EXTRA CASH IN THE PROCESS! (barfs… and not even rea huge M’s fan)
this is almost indisputabally the worest M’s trade since the nearly franchise killing Varitek + Lowe for Slocumb trade in 97.
So far this spring the Braves are 10-5-2 while outscoring the opposition 108-70 and averaging 6.35 runs per game. Only the Reds and Diamondbacks have scored more runs. The team ERA sits at an impressive 3.38.
Well, I can’t argue with Gammons, I have a man crush on him. If anyone can change my mind, it’s him. He’s amazing.
Did you really just quote spring training statistics? I am officially tapping out of this argument.
Spring training stats??? Really???
You guys are clueless.
Coach, spring training stats can be important, but not necessarily so. I mean, Ichiro is hitting .040 this spring. What does that mean? Like the dude isn’t gonna hit over .320 this season.
I do think the stats can be an important gague for the youngsters, however.
Oakland A’s: 10-5
TB Rays: 9-3
Florida Marlins: 12-6
KC Royals: 9-6
Phillies: 5-10
Boston: 5-8
Cubs: 6-10
DBacks: 6-10
Mariners: 7-8
1) Angel Pagan of the NY Mets is hitting .400 with 10 RBI.
2) Jack Cust of the Oakland A’s is hitting .364 with 3 HR and 10 RBI
3) Joe Borchard of the Braves is hitting .375 in 24 at-bats, with 11 RBI.
You’re right, I should be paying a lot of attention to Spring Training stats since they mean SO much. Allllriiiight.
My last statement on this subject is this.
You are both right , spring training stats don’t usually mean much , except that winning or losing ball games is the last thing on the mind of Bobby Cox. He is doing one thing and one thing only , which is trying to find the best 25 man roster.
The Braves 11-5-2 record (including Georgia) , 3.25 team ERA , 6.5 runs scored per game and outscoring the opposition 117-71.
These numbers are an indicator of the Braves talent level , it’s not about wins and losses. You cannot compare this organization with any other team. The Braves don’t conduct business like other teams do in spring training.
look at the Braves spring training of 2007. 18-12 , 3.77 team ERA.
That team finished 88-74 and would have won a lot more games had Mike Hampton and Lance Cormier not gone down right out of the gate and effectively killing the Braves pitching. I tried to tell everybody that they were a wild card contender and not much else and they were , right up until the last week of the season.
How abut 2006 , the Braves limped out of spring training 11-18 with a team ERA of 4.97 and YES , I pissed a lot of people off by pulling the plug on them at the end of May 2006 by predicting they would not win the division or make the playoff’s. I was of course , totally right.
So , get back to me at the end of the 2008 season when the Braves are in the playoff’s. And YES , I’ll be right , AGAIN.
Coach, I love the fact that you’re going out on a limb and taking the braves so hard. But we’re gonna hold you to that! lol We will actually be creating a “Predictions” feature soon (probably beginning of April), so you can note it there for easier “record-leeping.”
The writers here will also be producing a seaons precidctions page before the season begins. We shall see if anyone picks the Braves to make the postseason…
Coach, I like the Braves a lot this year, I do. I wish you the best in ‘08.
I like the Braves, too, but there are three better teams (New York, Arizona, San Diego) that are going to make the playoffs with better records (97-65, 92-70 and 90-72, respectively) before them. They would make it if they were in the NL Central. I see 89-73, and a lot of heartbroken folks in Atlanta, just like those in Milwaukee, San Diego and Queens this year. By the way, those three towns will continue to root for their teams in October.
And by the way, Coach, the 2007 Atlanta Braves finished 84-78, not even close to making the playoffs. And the ‘06 team was just five games worse, and they had a career year from Andruw Jones. Spring training means NOTHING.